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Sunday, 06 January 2008

Comments

Sarah

"An ignorant, wrongful group – who were either heretics and hypocrites, or misguided and misled"

LOL, why you clearly doesn't mention the name of "Shiite"? Isnt it hypocrisy too when you say any kind of insult to a "group" allegorically (even from an scholar mouth) and don't show your enmity "clearly"?

I find muslim world a funny place to live, filled with all kind of hypocrites!! With your post i really dont like to be muslim. It seems my understanding as a non muslim about Islam is more than you as a muslim scholar.
What i see in muslims is just copying from the past, enmity and extrimist ideas. They even don't tolerate each other ;)

ARGcomment: A person should be a Muslim because it is the truth from God, not because of what some people who call themselves Muslim may say or not say or do or not do.
God does not need you to be Muslim, you need Islam.
However the statement of the scholar is just and fair.
Nothing destroys the truth of religion like those who pervert it with innovated practices and false beliefs.
In fact what does Jesus do except attack the false practices of scribes and pharisees? Or in fact any Prophet, they all came to attack falsehood!!!! It is the job of the scholars also, despite the ignorance of people like you.
But then there is always another problem with people like you Sarah, and that is that you are BIGGEST HYPOCRITE of all.
Can't you even see the contradiction in your own statement!!! You can't even understand your self!
Hello!!!
WHEN YOU CRITICISE OTHERS FOR CRITICISING OTHERS, you are doing the exact same thing that they are!
When you say:
I find muslim world a funny place to live, filled with all kind of hypocrites!
You must be laughing all the time, especially when you look in the mirror!

Billal wyman

lol "Sarah", I visited your blog. Its abit shameful that you need to lie and pretend here that you are a non-muslim to get your point across. If you think its wrong to criticize people for adopting the ways and rituals of jaahiliyyah, you really have not understood islam at all. This is the disease in the hearts of the Muslims - arrogance and stubbornness, sticking to wrong practices for sake of tradition, regardless of what the religion says.

[Holy Quran 5:104] "When they are told, “Come to what Allah has revealed, come to the prophet” they say, “Whatever WE FOUND OUR FOREFATHERS DOING IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR US.” Even though their forefathers knew nothing at all, nor were they guided?"

May God guide us all back to the straightest of paths, Insha'Allah!!!!!

Yahya Hayder Seymour

Well, lol If I ever thought I'd see this day.

I hope the Iranian Trustee at RPM receives the nice little forward of this, I knew you had some problems in the past with Shias and even came to Brunel University to "sort them out". However, if you want to criticise them, debate on their Scholars, did you copy and paste that rant from your old Colleague Dimashqia?

ARGcomment: errrr, which rant is that?

Haneefa

Ohhhhhh Noooooo ARG you've been caught out big time! What are we going to do, quick get some help cos ARG is on his way down to Brunel to sort 'em out!!! OOOOH and lets not forget the Iranian Trustee, errr ohhh, this is like more interesting than an Agatha Christies novel!

The plot unfolds, what next:

"ARG spotted at an Iranian restaurant, guiltily enjoying a Persian Kebab!"

Ejaz

I see the Rafidah like the internet cowards they are, are quick to open their mouths and hide behind names like "Sarah". Don't worry about this Taqiyyah mongering nation akhi. Do what you have to do. You should've seen the ruckus and crocodile tears that came out when we had the Iranian Sheikh Abu Muntasir down at QM a few weeks ago. He gave it to them hard and they simply couldn't take it. On cue, they burst into a huge sing song reminiscent of a gospel choir. As an ex-Rafidhi brother said, "Catholicism and Rafidhism, two falsehoods, one pagan root". As expected they came armed with their own little printouts of fabricated hadiths supposed to be from Muslim and understandings of Orthodox Islam that even a 5 year old would be too ashamed have. You can thank the kids at "answering ansar" for giving a whole generation of brave little rafidhis so called "ammo" for "debating" with sunnis. Unfortunately all that endless printing means our 12er friends aren't very environmentally friendly!

I wrote this after the event:

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156518

Muslimah

Great Job brother. Thanks for sharing such info. Keep it up.

Umm Rageh

Assalam Alaikum to all my fellows 'muslims' out there!

I know this a few months old and that the debate has probably fizzled out BUT I could not move on to the next post without commenting....

SUBHAN'ALLAHU AATHEEM!!! What is the matter with this ummah?? It's quite simple really- wait for it...if you are a muslim then your Holy book of reference etc..is the Holy Quran, and once you've read it you will also discover that we as muslims need to refer to the Hadiths of our Rasual'Allah Prophet Muhammad(saw)and incorporate his sunnah into our everyday lives in every way. We NEED to remember to keep 'culture' 'family lineage' 'nationality' etc in perspective and realise that they don't always lead us to the straight path.

Remember that 'pride' 'arrogance' 'backbiting' and 'leading people astray' are all hated by Allah(swt)and they are sins that could potentially cause you great pain on the Day and beyond!!

Please Please my fellow muslim brothers and sisters use your mind to think and your heart to accept the truth of our Lord(swt) and our last Prophet(saw)

And Allah knows best

ARGcomment: Comments are always welcom. Many people come to blogs for the first time are read the lot, comments and all!

Heni Suwandi

Assalamualaikum,

Just came across this blog informed by a friend. I know its out of topics but dunno where to turn to for an answer. Thought to myself better hurry to spill it out before I get completely lost.

I’d like to ask you about Allah. Since my knowledge in Islam is minimal, thus I put three questions with the same merit in order to get my point across to avoid any misunderstanding.

1.If Allah did not create paradise and hellfire, would we still worship him?

2.Do you think it’s possible for human beings to love, obey and worship Allah if there was no punishment for us in the hellfire for bad deeds or rewards of heaven for good deeds?.

3.Do you think we could abide by his commands solely for the sake of Allah rather than wanting heaven as a reward or fearing hellfire?

If Yes, how?

Thank you very much. I’m sorry if I take up on your time but I really appreciate your opinion on this matter. May Allah reward you for you all of your fine work. Amin

Wassalam,
Heni

ARGcomment: I simply don't think we can or should ask questions like this. Allah created us on a certain nature, gave us free will and made life a test. Our nature is to be motivated by reward and punishment. So the question is in a sense meaningless.
I think you will find my blog on ALTRUISM very useful!

Heni Suwandi

Assalamulaikum,

Oh my Lord, brother Green...am I considered a kufr now?
Respectfully Mr. Green, I am disappointed that you consider my inquiry meaningless. I am not trying to be a smart *** in this matter. If I shouldn't have even been thinking like this then I am so sorry. Need to clarify to you though that good intention was all I hv coz I feel the need to know Allah (swt) alot better; sincerely for him only, not because of his paradise or hellfire. If you're saying that we can't be closer to Allah (swt) due to our nature then I am doomed to feel like a hypocrite forever.

Oops...it's 3 am here in this strange land....got to go to make tahajud pray.

PS: Mr. Green I also posted another comment upon the reply you made about hijr. FYI: I am a very passionate person too and when I feel some disagreement, my heart starts pumping, my blood boils but Insyallah now that I am getting older I am able to think rationally in that particular condition. I just want to say first of all that I don't have any inclination to disrespect you at all. I merely responded on your reply. I apologize if I came across as if I did. All and All in terms of deepening my faith, you've changed me into a better person.

Wassalam


Wassalam

ARGcomemnt: That makes two of us being passionate, but if you must then do so with knowledge, otherwise you look a fool even if you are not!
Of course I was not calling you a kaffir, I simply pointing out the futility of asking such a question about Allah and how He chose to create us.

Fatima Barkatulla

But also, ARG and Sister Heni, scholars often wrote about the higher level of Iman of the person who does do things with Allah alone in mind. Most people are motivated by Jannah & Jahannam but there were pious people in the past who would try to reach a level or station of Iman where they were motivated by Allah's pleasure alone - which in itself is a reward.

In an Urdu poem I know, the poet says (translated):

"Let Jannah, the blessed, for ascetics be,
For meeting You means more to me"

Meaning that Jannah is less of a reward than meeting or seeing Allah and feeling that He is pleased with you.

and Allah knows best

ARGcomment: Allah's pleasure and jennah are ultimately one and the same n'es pas? Will you "meet Allah" if you do not go to jennah? Certainly not. So if you want to meet Allah, and have the vision of His face you need to get jennah. Everything else is fluff.
The higher levels perhaps you refer to is the desire for this vision, so they not motivated by the rivers, virgins, trees etc...but by the thought of seeing their Lord, but this is in reality one of the delights of paradise, if fact THE greatest delight.

Heni Suwandi

Assalamualaikum,

Much obliged Sister Fatima, you have shed some profoundly valuable lights into my soul. I am quite at ease now knowing that other people have already thought of this type of question before. I also have asked my family about this and they assured me that I am still a person with Iman and encouraged me even more to explore Allah’s nature in order to find the answer. Alhamdulliah another shed of light keeps my soul even warmer.

Wassalam,
Heni

Abd

You see heni, it is about point, what is the general purpose of a hypothetical question, for example a hypothetical question about my job would be, 'If I get fired next month, how will I pay my bills?', this is a USEFUL question to ask myself, as it CAN really happen.

But then if I ask a hypothetical question like "If Allah did not create paradise and hellfire, would we still worship him?", this is not a situation we are ever going to be in, Allah has ALREADY created us, created a paradise and a hell, so there is no POINT in worrying about such a hypothetical question and scenario that we will NEVER experience.

The best way to know more about Allah, is to read his book, the Noble Qur'an.

All the best, Salam

ARGcomment: Jzk khair Abd!

Heni Suwandi

Bismillahirrahminirrahim,

Well, you see abd; we cannot indulge ourselves in laziness in trying to discover Allah (swt). Asking the hypothetical question to the matters of dunia (habluminanas) is completely an unparallel hypothetical question upon Allah (swt) due to the extent of its results implications to mankind. So long as you conduct your manners in full respect, and greatest believe in Allah’s wills. If I follow your suggestion to not worry coz you think it's useless, then I should just stop to think of the purpose of our existence due to the fact that we already existed. Now, where would that lead us???

All the best to you as well,

Wassalam

ARGcomment: No, you gave the wrong example. The question would be: "What if we didn't exist, then what?"
or some people say: "well I didn't ask to be created"
Well you do exist and you have been created so lets get on with it.
"Why did Allah create hell-fire, and paradise, or why do we exisit" are different from "If there was no paradise, or existence" etc..etc..
Heni, please, give yourself a break!!!

Heni Suwandi

If that’s the case, don’t you think the hypo-Q of what if "we did not exist" or "well, I did ask to be created" would totally void the purpose of the question itself and that is definitely a pointless one. You see, the substance of the hell-fire/paradise hypo-Q involves the main character which is US but the substance of your questions involve nothing. The h/p hypo-Q is US asking Allah (swt) about his creations but your hypo-Q is asking Allah (swt) upon ourselves. Do you see the difference?

C’Mn ARG, get reall!!!

ARGcomment: You are right, the question is different, but in fact only by degree. Since revelation is ended, and this question is not contained in the Quran or Sunnah, we have no way of getting this knowledge from Allah, and since speaking aobut Allah without knowledge is worse than shirk, according to the scholars, since every shirk starts from speaking about Allah without knowledge, then asking this question is still futile. (and NO I am NOT calling you a mushrik.)
Only Allah can answer it.

Fatima Barkatulla

Dear Heni,

As the brothers have mentioned, such a hypothetical question does not have benefit in being asked because it is something that won't happen and also because it has no bearing on the purpose of your life. Sometimes Shaitan tries to get us to be busy with the unimportant, unanswerable questions instead of the ones that help us to fulfill the purpose of our lives and truly bring us closer to Allah.

Some aspects of Allah's 'nature' and reasons for doing things cannot be understood by us as human beings and so we should busy ourselves with what Allah has told us...

Hope you understand...
Your Sister
Fatima

Heni Suwandi

To say the least, I’d like to think that I am a person who is sensible enough to respond manners equally. I greatly value the recent comments, which are civil, thoughtful and compassionate thus the right equal respond would be to happily convey gratitude to the implementation of my desired level of respectful interactions.

I’d also like to say that I understand the pressure to supposedly assist someone like myself who are probably considered on the dangerous path or maybe some would say on the wrong path in trying to be closer to Allah (swt). Rest assured, Insyaallah I guard my Iman with a lot of prays, do’a, attend khotbah, etc. Suggestions noted and I’ll do my best to fulfill the purpose of my life through different religious analytical approach and accept the futility of such Q.

Rrgds,
Heni

Heni Suwandi

One more final point before I put this issue to rest.

Presumably, the Q received condescending reactions bcz it was misunderstood. I agree if anybody observed the Q "at face value", they inevitably would draw the same non-beneficial hypo-Q conclusion. However, I was hoping to be fortunate enough to obtain reactions from people who could analyze it beyond what it stated. If we make an effort to try to analyze the Q carefully, we could distinguish the different aspects of what is the non-existence hypo-Q of Hellfire/ Paradise really represent. Let’s view my presentation for a minute from a completely different angle and see what kind of perspectives that we could accomplish. I apologize if any inconveniency occurring through reading some of my chosen words.

There are two young men named Terry and Barron who has just finished celebrating their high school graduations ceremony. Due to their nature as young bright fellows, they inherently believe in the importance of having a university degree.
Baron was brought up in the close ties wealthy family. So close that the parents, the aunts, the uncles, the grandfathers, the grandmothers, and the respected close friends constantly breathing down on his neck influencing him on making the decisions on every little detail aspect of his life. Due to this situation, he is undoubtedly always being forced to let his family do all the thinking for him. In short, he later agreed to attend a university that they have chosen it for him.
And as for Terry being brought up in a poor family, having a shit load of series of unfortunate events in his life with neither family nor close friends who are resourceful, have created an environment of free choice. No duties to repay, no deeds to recollect. To get into the University, he applied for scholarship programs, got rejected thousands of time, did not give up until one day he prevails. Now he is IN.

Questions:
1.Who has the best motivation in making the dream come true?
2.How does the lacking motivation come about?
3.What will the lacking of motivation cause and vise versa?
4.How is a motivation generated?

Baron got the boot from the starting point. He had lost the race bcz he is already lacking the motivation and was forced to embrace the sense of love and respect towards the institution instead of developing it independently. Lacking the motivation has caused Baron to go to school, to study, do the exam, and finally graduated merely out a sense of obligation. If Baron had been given the chance to think for himself then his decision would’ve been his own thus none of these negative attitudes could’ve ever emerged.
On the contrary, Terry is full of motivation. Out of a strong determination and through the quite harsh struggles, he managed to get IN. Hence, he developed independently his own sense of love and respect towards the institution. The going to school, the exam, and the finally graduating were nothing near of feeling obligated.

What is the lesson learned here. We learned that it is the necessity of human beings in order to be successful to establish firstly the sense of love and respect. Then comes the strong motivation and determination, which eventually lead their hearts to yearn to devote themselves willingly (complete and total submission).

Why do people consciously neglect to do the shallat? Is it bcz it is a tremendously heavy task to do? No. The answer is the lacking of motivation. These people will then receive a constant reminder from pious people who keep telling them the need to pray. And they would tell them that if we pray, we will be rewarded with Heaven and if we don’t then we’ll be going straight to Hell. Don’t get me wrong, it is absolutely the right thing to do to follow the path of our Prophet (swt) to remind people, infact I encourage everybody and myself to do the same. But, are we getting our point across though? I think the constant reminding is not very helpful if they haven’t developed the sense of love and respect towards Allah (swt). Consequently, the worshiping becomes nothing more than performing an obligation.

I’d like to think that the non-existence of Hellfire/Paradise would force people to start thinking for themselves out of the confinement of the obligations concepts. It also means that there’ll be no choice for them but to focus on Allah alone without worrying so much on His likes and dislikes and their guilt feelings for abandoning Allah (swt), which mean they can now start thinking with their brains rather than with their hearts. Ultimately, based on the curiosity of human nature, the brains will be so thirsty for the knowledge of Allah thus, they will search Him independently through books and other means necessary. Once the brain comes to term of how Gracious Allah is to mankind, then they have successfully established their sense of love and respect. By then, wouldn’t they feel ashamed to ignore the Being that has been so generous to them? Wouldn’t they then be so willingly to devote themselves to the Being that’s been so attentively taking care of them? Wouldn’t it be as if they betrayed their own feelings of gratitude if they consciously disrespect their ultimate Merciful Provider? Their independent newfound love and respect will eventually motivate them to pray (or in general do good deeds and avoid wrongdoings) without having people telling them to do so. At this stage, I can assure you that no one will have an objection if we proclaim that Allah has permitted us to be successful in bringing people into their complete and total submission to Him. In addition, hopefully they’ll also come to terms that after all of Allah’s magnificent kindness, He still manages to provide us with the reward even though all the good deeds we do in life mean nothing to Him. One needs to understand that the shallat, dzikir, reciting his words are just ways to warm our hearts so that Allah could give us His light of guidance. None of them benefits Him and yet He still rewards us for it. Indeed, Allah is the Most Gracious and Merciful.

That is all my intention for presenting the Q and Insyaallah it could benefit us through my humble understanding of Allah (swt) and this life.

Wassalam,
Heni

Abd

I don't see how the non-existence of paradise/hell would have anything to do with those points you raised.

People are created with the ability and comprehension to accept God and live in accordance to what he has commanded us to do OR to be arrogant and not to submit to God's will. This is how we are created.

Since we are created with free will, some people are going to choose not to follow God... so their is a NEED for hell!

Now if God had wanted to not create heaven and hell, he would not created us like this, we would be like the angels, we would not have free will.

I really cant see how thinking there is no hell or heaven would be helpful to anyone, it would mean that sinful people who reject God and do w/e will be equal to those who strive to be good and follow his commandments.

All the best, Salam

Heni Suwandi

"Now if God had wanted to not create heaven and hell, he would not created us like this, we would be like the angels, we would not have free will."
Bingo!! You’ve got it. So, let’s take it up a notch. According to the HQ, we would still be living on earth with the ability to enjoy the lawful pleasures of the real world – watching the sunset, eating delicious food, be surrounded by our loved ones, etc. Now, if you were faced with this type of (real) abundant pleasures, how would you feel? Angry and bitter bcz God gave you pleasure? Well, that would be insane. I know that life is not always rainbows and butterflies but that’s what a hypothetical question is all about. It lets people to think beyond boundaries and relaxes them from any type of intimidations in a hope that it would arouse our mind to a greater level of curiosity.

"I really cant see how thinking there is no hell or heaven would be helpful to anyone, it would mean that sinful people who reject God and do w/e will be equal to those who strive to be good and follow his commandments."
Well, if you want to look at the hypothetical world that way, then the answer would be yes. Is it fair? Of course not but then again does such concept really exist in the real world? Now, lets get back a little bit more to the HQ. Since in the HQ world the Hellfire did not exist so nobody would sin. So, I think we can start from here to persuade the real world sinners to enjoy the ride of imaginary world where they would not be intimidated by punishment. I don’t wanna sound like a broken record here but like I’ve already mentioned, the HQ would force these people to start thinking out of the confinement of the obligation concept and once they understood the concept, then they would begin to think with their brains rather than with their hearts. In other words, start using their COMMON SENSE. Not to worry so much "brother", the HQ is not applicable to the delusional sinners who would think that an imaginary situation is the reality. So, even though they would enjoy the ride as morally equal persons as "those who strive to be good and follow His commandments", they would eventually have to get off and join the reality to face the fact that the Heaven will still be a far away destination if they don’t repent. After all, they are sinners not stupid :)

And if you’re talking about the moral equality after we r all dead, I have to tell you that I don’t dare to clarify it cz you are asking about what would be the effect of the HQ to GOD and His judgment, which according to the scholars mentioned by Brother G, we do not have the knowledge for it. And I also suggest if you want to counter my response it’d be better to study my HQ with attentiveness. You see, I never asked what would GOD do if this and that happened BUT I presented the HQ of what would WE do if this things happened.

"People are created with the ability and comprehension to accept God and live in accordance to what he has commanded us to do OR to be arrogant and not to submit to God's will. This is how we are created."
Ah CMon! we all know that the world is not black and white and we know that Allah created humans with flaws. It is the duty of every Muslim to lessen the flaws by reminding each other and share knowledge. So, what does that mean to you, "brother"? It’s true that God created everybody with the ability and comprehension to accept Him, BUT IS THE ABILITY EQUAL? If you haven’t noticed, some people have been blessed with the ability to understand God’s creations better than the rest. Well, perhaps you have been blessed with such a gift and been living a righteous way of sinless life with the same special people in your own community hence, you’ve become unaware that there is another world outside of your comfortable life in which I called the reality where Muslims who’s gone astray do exist. And if you’ve spent time to analyze the variety of reasons of why they’ve gone astray you wouldn’t have been so arrogant to assume that they have the equal level of understanding about God. If you think it is useless to try to connect with them without any preconceived notion of arrogance, well I just don’t see how you will be able to answer to Allah upon the blessings of the better knowledge He has given you. You see, just like in my narration, if you are wrongly motivated then you have lost the race even before you begin.

Rgrds,
HS

Abd

"You see, I never asked what would GOD do if this and that happened BUT I presented the HQ of what would WE do if this things happened.

"the HQ would force these people to start thinking out of the confinement of the obligation concept and once they understood the concept, then they would begin to think with their brains rather than with their hearts. In other words"

I just don't think humans not having punishment would make them be better, but anyway this has getting progressively more complex, even for my big imagination, lets just leave it. I don't purport to be sinless!!! I am not a sheltered naive person either, I am well aware of the situation and the deterioration of people's deen. I am a teenager, many of the muslims I meet are just by name, otherwise drinking, promiscuous and into all sorts of rubbish. I try to do dawah and such but ultimately it is their loss and I leave it upto God. If you read hadiths you will know the Prophet pbuh said that the ummah would deteriorate, divide and make halal what is haram etc. The Quran also says in a number of places about the people of paradise, many of them from the first generations and a few from the end generations.

May Allah help us all!

salam

Heni Novita Suwandi

My dearest brother Abd,
The HQ did receive condescending responds so it was also my intention to "LEAVE IT" – read the first line on my narration. But you see, now I have tiny little bits of problems to do so. First, it is with the way you COMMANDED it. My attitude radar has just instantly beeped on your chosen words. Just so you know, I live in a male dominated country and even though I made peace with God’s ruling years ago on how men should be in control, I prefer to be in that situation led by CONSIDERATE THOUGHTFUL WISE MEN. Let me ask you this; as a man – If someone gives a quick dismissal on your work, are you just gonna lay down and take it? Heck NO and that goes the same with girls too!!
Honestly, the (+-16/17) "teenager" confession was startling me bcz there were times when you and Bro G seemed to gang up on me and I thought you guys grew up in the same era. "Oops!" Of course you’d think it’s too complex and way too big "even for your big imagination" since I am 10 or perhaps 12 yrs ahead of you :) Well, if I was being warned about this I might have taken a different approach – maybe Bro G could make it mandatory for people to put their ages bfr making their comments :)

"I try to do dawah and such but ultimately it is their loss and I leave it upto God."
I agree with it to a certain extent. I agree that if you make da’wa already using plenty of the lawful approaches but still they don’t wanna listen, then you are absolutely right, it is their loss. But if you haven’t done any approaches or just barely, hence they tend to walk away, then it is your loss.

"I just don't think humans not having punishment would make them be better..."
Firstly bro, time and time and time again and again and again I never said anything about people getting away with their sins. The Hypothetical world is an Imaginary world. It is NOT REAL. So, when people do "play along" with the scenario and after the "play time" is over, they DO NOT GO AROUND ON THE STREET THINKING THAT HELLFIRE AND HEAVEN DO NOT EXIST.
Note strongly here: DELUSIONAL and STUPID people ARE NOT included.

If that doesn’t do you any justice, hmmm, maybe this one will.
Let’s say you have an old classic 56 yr-old Mustang. Your parents bought it for you for your 17th b’day. You drove it around the block with your girlfriends and had a blast. But then you’ve gotten older and have different priorities in life. You got married, have babies, and a job. You seem to never get a chance to go around on your beautiful Mustang anymore. Since your life is so busy, the only thing that you can do right now is to place her in your special garage and put a special cover to maintain her beauty. In your mind, you are determined that you will make time for her sometimes soon. Before you know it, years have gone by and the purpose of a garage has been fulfilled. It is now full with a lot of crap within the boxes after boxes after boxes and again....BOXES. Your wife, who loves you very much always knew that the Mustang was more like your first wife. So, out of a sincere devotion she wants you to enjoy her once again.
Q:
Can she see her husband’s precious MUSTANG clearly together with all of the boxes?
What would be the first and wisest thing to do in order to get the MUSTANG out and running?
What do the "different priorities in life", the garage, the Boxes, the 56 yr-old MUSTANG represent in the real life?
Is there a similarity between the non-existence of Boxes with the non- existence of Hf/P?

You do the map...

PS: You see, I m using variety of approaches here but if this doesn’t work either and according to your theory then, "IT IS YOUR LOSS"
However, I prefer to say that, "People are entitled to their own opinion."
Good luck w/ yr da'wa bro.

ARGcomment: Heni, no one gave you a condescending comment, and the age is no matter. You just read it that way! I'm sorry you have to face some male superiority issues from where ever you are, but can assure you, and I recon most people who know me will say the same thing, that's not may attitude at all! In fact I've been accused on a few occasions of being some sort of feminist!
What I am used to is when people ask me a question out of sincerity they should respect my answer. Otherwise why ask me in the first place? (I don't mean you in particular here, just anybody). Even if my answer is "Its not useful to ask such questions"
That's not condesending, or failing to take you seriously, but I can understand how if you came from a very male dominated culture you might think that. In fact my short and precise response was completely the opposite of what you think. No one "commanded" anything Heni! Not us anyway. OK, now please explain the parable of the car and the boxes, 'cause I don't get it!
Now just to CLARIFY, because I don't want you to get all defensive again, please presume here that I'm the one who's a bit dim, not that there is something wrong with your parable.

Abd

Unfortunately, when you read stuff online, you can't see the person's tone or how they are saying it, trust me it was not meant to be commanding or patronising.

Salam

Heni Novita Suwandi

You are right Brother G, I admit I was not being completely sincere with my questions. I shouldn’t have hidden myself behind a great wall of pretense and concealed my pure intention to gaining different perspectives to enrich my knowledge. I don’t wanna make the "male dominated" phenomenon in my country to become old news here, but sometimes it just comes so naturally to act as if I was inferior which has become a way of survival to ovoid the male egotistical outburst. It’s not an excuse for wat I did, but I guess living under certain circumstances eventually will force certain people to react in a certain way. Influenced by liberated mind of the West and be confined in the East lifestyle make me just wanna scream from time to time. Oh well, people used to say, "life is a bitch and then you die" and I tend to agree with it :)

Brother G, actually the first H/P scenario has a deeper meaning and represents more value than the classical Mustang. If you’re not bewildered anymore with the first one, then the second one should’ve been less complex to comprehend. To ovoid getting on the roller coaster ride so we can get a "spot-on" clarification on the classical Mustang, if you don’t mind Bro G, I think we should try to dig up on what you have understood so far from both scenarios, shall we?

Jazak’Allah khair,
HS

ARGcomment: You mean the hypothetical question? I was never bewildered by it, I just didn't think it was worth thinking about. I know its about doing things because you love Allah, because He is goodness and beauty and truth, and for that He should be glorified, worshiped, loved and praised, even if there was no paradise, judgment or Hell- Fire. However if you read my article on altruism you'll get the drift that I don't think it exists. Even our altruistic behavior is actually motivated but an inner sense of satisfaction and well being. Thus worshiping Allah is the same. It carries its own reward. This is what ibn Taymiyyah meant when he said that the one who does not taste paradise here will not taste it there. ie, the feeling of peace and pleasure from the love and worship of Allah is the feeling of paradise. So now if I re-phrase your hypo question. What if we got no pleasure from loving and worshiping Allah, and there was no promise of paradise or threat of hell, would we do it? Well I venture that we wouldn't, because pleasure, or the promise of it, or pain or threat of it is what ultimately motivates us. Humans are inherently selfish, even in our altruism. Its only that the altruistic person finds pleasure in that. That's why I just said there's not point in the hyp q in my opinion.
OK so now what's the Mustang, wife and boxes all about?

Syed Ali Raza Naqvi

Asalam-o-Alaikum, Dear Brother Abdur Raheem Green, I have some thing very important for you. It is in fact Dawah for you. I am a shiaite Muslim and I am sending an you an argument. Read the following Aayat in Holy Quran.

Surah-e-Furqan 57th
Surah-e-Shura 23rd
Surah-e-Yousaf 104th

1st Says Tell them that I do not ask you to to give me any AJER (Wordly benifit for conveying Allah's Message) EXCEPT that one adopts a path towords his RAB.
It means that there is no possibility of an AJER except adopting Allah's Sabeel (Path)
2nd Ayat Syas Tell them I dont ask any Ajer except that you love my reletives (Ahlebait)
IT SEEMS TO BE A MISTAKE IN QURAN. Allah has said there is no ajer except adopting His path. Now He says there is no Ajer except (Ahlebait's) Love.
THERE IS ONLY ONE POSSIBILITY LEFT.
LOVE OF AHLEBAIT IS ALLAH'S PATH. TWO NAMES OF THE SAME THING.
if it is so then AHLEBAIT Can to be dictated, ruled etc. because you don't turn the path. You follow it. This is what we claim.

The third aayat says. (O Prophit you don't ask them an ajr, it is only an advice for AALAMEEM.)
but the first part is not correct untill we accept that the second part is about Ajr-e-Risalat. and if it is an advice for AALAMEEN then it means AHLEBAIT are to be followed by aalameen.

(I am very sorry for poor language and poor translation of Ayat) but I hope you will undertand this cluch of logic.
why Ali was ruled by 1st 2nd and 3rd caliph
I have tens of arguments but if you respond.
Ali Raza.
Ph #: 03017592920 (Pakistan)

ARGcomment: Brother Ali, all of ahl sunnah love and respect ahle bait, in the proper manner but loving them does not mean making shirk with Allah, attributing to them powers of divinity and Prophethood and infallibility. This is the same shirk the Christians made about Jesus which the Prophet saws prophesied that people would do to Ali. May Allah protect us! I am not saying you personally do this but some Shia do.
Aisha and Hafsa and all the Prophets wives, as well as others all ahle bait, but shia curse Aisha. Certainly whoever curses the mother of believers is the most cursed themselves by Allah.
I do not wish or intent to enter into any argument in this matter. The verses of the Quran are explained by and in context of the authenticated sunnah of the Prophet that has been protected and guarded by the people of hadith, not by mere logic. The scholars of hadith have made every effort to guard this deen from interpretations of those who have lied and invented and who have no scientific method to know truth from falsehood.
Having checked the verses of Quran that you mentioned I cannot see what those verses have to do at all with your argument.

Shahrzad

I came here from the refers my blog has gotten.
I have no idea about your rant. I am just pointing one your commentators who used link of my blog for her name and comment.

Dear Sarah or whatever. Next time you want to spread your opinions, plz use link of your own blog instead of misusing people's URL.

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