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Saturday, 03 February 2007


Fatima Barkatulla

The Ajman Edutility thing looks and sounds very good. Is it a Summer programme or is it all year round?

I have noticed that time is not optimally utilised in the school system, so academic progress is much slower than at home. I was homeschooling my son and then he got a place in a Muslim school and in a way...I thought it was worth trying out. If you get a place in a Muslim school, it usually means hundreds if not thousands of others were turned down. So I felt that I had to value and be thankful for what I had been given in a way and at least have a look. I mean the whole subject of schooling versus homeschooling pulls you one way and another, especially if you remember what was good about your own schooling.

But there is definitely a sort of conveyer belt mentality at school. At home I did enjoy homeschooling and my son progressed very rapidly in most areas, but the thing I struggled with was this: if you are in the UK and you homeschool...bearing in mind the fact that it is not the sort of place where you would let your children play outside freely...go and explore freely etc...then would the children not get a very limited outlook on life...with mum always looking over their shoulder? I did get my son involved in clubs and other activities here whilst homeschooling and took him to Egypt to a Classical Arabic nursery there...and I know I could homeschool...but I remember the feeling that there was 'another world' out there that my child would never experience. Actually I often think of pulling my son out of school as he is still 5 and think of just 'going for it' as far as homeschooling is concerned...I think we have to do what we can do. I don't think absolutely everyone is suited to homeschooling...and I think some of the examples John Taylor Gatto gives in his book and lecture are a bit extreme actually and many are peculiarities of the American school system.

iMuslim said it is exciting and a bit scary. I think so too. Such a heavy responsibility...so many ways one could approach it...and our children's lives...passing by bit by bit....

M. S. M. Saifullah

You said: "Why in today’s world when children spend 6 to 7 hours at school, should they have to get extra tuition or go to institutions, this alone is a question mark on the schooling system." I do not think so! The reason being that the schools do not claim that they will educate the kids 100%. They only provide general instruction as to how one should do things. The rest is dependent on the parents and the kids. When I was a kid (in India), this was the way everything went. At school we were given brief guidelines as to how to approach the problem. Supplemented with it was homework which helped us to explore the nuances of the subject. We studied ourselves at home with the help of parents and classmates and prepared for examinations, small and big.

It is true that the entrance exams in India for professional studies (Bachelor and Master degree courses in engineering, medicine, law, etc.), unlike rest of the world, are very tough and they require a completely different approach from what is taught at schools. If one is homeschooled, then he or she can forget about attempting to answer questions which appear in these exams, especially for the entrance in Bachelor degree courses. They require a thorough knowledge and mastery of the subject along with the speed, which only extra tuitions by experts can provide.

ARGcomment:) watch out for India everybody! They are well on course to becoming a superpower in the next 25 years. Its their professed aim!

Shabber Adam

Good point Saifullah about the difference in education in India. I have traveled and always enjoy analyzing the social makeup of a country including their education, even though I have not been to India, I have been to Pakistan, Hong Kong and Taiwan were education is similar to India.

Something I noticed in these countries is that after school home work, or extra tuition has become a way of life, it is the defacto-standard, which does not actually mean it is a good thing.

In the UK if you were to ask most parents who send their children to school, Do you assume a school should provide a complete academic education? (please notice I did not mention character development but academic). Most will say “yes”.

Why? Because in the west we are bought up to expect that when someone tells me they will provide me a service or tell me they will do something I automatically will assume they will do it to the best of their ability and give me my monies worth.

For example what you pay for is what you get, if I buy a Mercedes Benz I expect a certain quality of product, if I go to a certain brand, Virgin, etc I expect a certain level of service, throughout our life we have been trained and if we do not get a certain level of service we switch suppliers. In terms of services and goods we can know pretty quickly if the product or service is not up to scratch, let me ask everyone what quality tests have you prepared to check if the school you are sending your child to is up to scratch, after all its only your children’s education. Maybe term reports? Hmm, if your kid is no good in math’s its 3 months too later. GCSE exam results? 5 years too late if they get bad grades or fail, and then there is the whole issue of your child’s behavior at school, you get called when they done something really bad, again you’ve missed the boat, you see if your child is shy and doesn’t cause trouble there is a good chance he/she will get good grades but their potential will never be realized, because if I am a teacher I like quiet kids who don’t challenge me, makes my job (and is only a job for me) easier.

Of course we don’t pay for education in the UK unless its private so or actually we do through our taxes but because parents feel its free education for their kids they are even less likely to demand higher standards and quality or question the education system.

Now I have had more exposure to people from India in the workplace in Dubai than I did in the UK, I agree that India is a very competitive place in terms of learning, but I do have to question the ‘whole academic grades are the only thing matters attitude’.

I keep thinking for example why companies that can afford 5 Indian qualified people with Masters or Phd’s still will employ 1 UK or US Bachelor qualified person? A number of reasons come to mind:

There are a lot of skills like leadership, out of the box thinking and many others that are just not gained in academic only institutions. Nearly all academic institutions in the west and east focus on academic results only – This is starting to change in the west but still not in India, China, etc. The Prophet(saw) mentioned that he came to perfect our character. A western quote that I can’t remember who quoted it said, “Good manners will open doors that the best of education can never open” – and the Prophet(saw) gave this world the value of half a mosquito wing, not even two mosquito wings, which might be useful but 1 mosquito wing, think about it, mosquito is the annoying creature that we squat, has no value for us, and one wing does nothing at all, that’s the value of this world.

So I really would have to question the whole education system of countries like Pakistan, India, China, Taiwan, if any thing the educated people from these countries are just better trained sheep than the western sheep.

In these countries children regularly study for around 9 to 10 hours a day on academic studies, so even Islamically I have to question this, why, when our rizk was written for us 50,000 years before creation do we run after it, because the only reason most people are pushing their children to get good academic grades is so they can go to good Universities and get high paying positions. I can understand if someone studies Quran, and Islamic sciences 8 or 9 hours day to implement in his life and to teach others, to gain Allah(swt)’s pleasure, and inshallah gain paradise.

Every day we see and here about people who dropped out of school and are millionaires, billionaires, etc so why do we want to run after these academic grades?

This is one of the reasons the whole school system is wrong, it wastes a lot of time, what children can complete in 2 to 3 hours takes 7 hours at school. This is proven with home schooling, the same grade level that is achieved at school in 7 hours per day is what is covered in 2 or 3 hours per day with home schooling.

Even in the Muslim countries very little importance is given to Quran or Islamic studies, its all about math’s, English, science, etc.

On this point I will leave with this, what is it that we want for our children? And you can answer this yourself very easily, which ever is REALLY important to you. So check how much time your child in a day spends on secular academic subjects and how much time on Quran, Islam and character building, it’s a simple ratio. And if you get shocked and want to change this then you will understand why it is an easy decision to take your child out of school and seek other different solutions.

In regards to both China and India being a superpower its again all about the dunya, why can India achieve this it is because of one small thing, numbers of middle class people.

You see in a country of 1 billion when we say there middle class is only 15% or 20% what we are saying is 150 million, 200 million people, in the west US and Europe the figure is higher, the middle class in India is more than the whole population in the UK, why middle class because they spend money and pay tax, this enables the country to invest in R&D and the military, the US is powerful on two fronts buying power and military because of its middle class numbers.

But look at India’s and China’s wealth distribution and pollution statistics than that is worrying and shocking.

If you look at other countries you will find filthy rich people and poor people very little in the middle.

By the way, I never thought much about education before I used to just think a good school will sort my kids out, I just need to earn enough money to send them to one.

ARGcomment: Society need engineers, doctors and scientists to do Rand D and facotry workers. We can't all be millionairs and business people.
A nations education sysetem needs to equip the nation.
We need indians as well as chiefs.
As they say, too many chefs spoil the broth.
I think there is nothing wrong with being a factor worker, farmer or dustman. Each performs and essential task. One thing though we ALL need is deen and good character. That is for sure.

Fatima Barkatulla (Umm Yusuf)

I think that is a good point made by MSM Saifullah...at some point or another, a child will have to enter 'the system' and it would help if they had experience of it.


As-salaamu 'alaikum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatu,

I've been homeschooled for the last 6 years (since grade 5), and I think it's awesome!
We do it through 'distance education', which means that we register with the distance education school (there's usually one for each city, and depending on the size of the city, one for a couple of districts), and they give me all the course materials. I also have a choice of doing the courses online, or paper-based - so I've been taking a bit of both. Either way, I have teachers I send the assignments to, who grade them, and I also do regular tests and exams.

My schedule is pretty much like a normal school kids' schedule - start at around 9:00, finish at around 3:00. However, I take a shorter lunch break and in between I of course stop to pray.

After that, I've got all the time in the world to pursue Islamic Studies... although right now it's pretty much limited to reading various Islamic books and reading articles on the Internet. And then on weekday evenings I have to help out my dad at the Madrasah...

My three brothers - all younger than me - also used to be homeschooled... the older 2 started after grade 4 (my parents wanted them to be able to experience education in a proper school setting, and also to be able to socialize with others at an age when they wouldn't have to deal with more serious things like peer pressure, girlfriends, and so on), but my youngest brother was homeschooled right from kindergarten. However, since we moved to another city, they've all been put back in public school. Al-Hamdulillaah, though, their secular education is being supplemented by the Islamic studies they're learning at the Madrasah - which is also where they get to socialize with other Muslim kids their age.

Personally, I like homeschooling because I'm learning the same stuff other kids in high school are studying, yet I'm doing it in a way that makes me more independent.

So, while the education I'm getting is still a lot different from what I'd *really* like (my ideal education would be a meld of systems, that of the secular education system here in Canada, and that of the Muslims of the past, wherein I could study Islam in greater detail so as to prepare myself for Islamic unversity - insha'Allah!), it's still a lot better than what I'd be getting if I was in a public high school.


Your little sister in Islam,

Raihanah Starbuck

Assalamu alaikum

The thing about types of schooling is that it doesn’t have to be an all-or-nothing situation. When we lived in the UK I never considered sending my children to full-time school. We were happy with the freedom to home educate, the children were progressing at a high level in all subjects, masha’Allah, and Cambridge had a very active home educating group made up of people from many different backgrounds (Christians, Agnostics, people who professed to be pagans, and a couple of Muslims). While they already were learning Islamic studies and Arabic reading/writing at home, we all still attended the Saturday Islamic School so that the kids could be in tune with other muslims in the community- people that they could possibly grow up with.

My husband (Saifullah, commenter above) had hinted at the idea of moving to Singapore about 3 years before the actual move. While I knew that my kids were ahead of the UK system and my home system from the US, I was a bit anxious that they wouldn’t be at the same level as Singapore counterparts. I had initially wanted to home-educate the students here, but we looked at the Islamic schools here to see what was on offer.

Masha’allah, the Islamic schools here are very different than anything that I’ve ever found in the UK or the US. Children used to only be taught Islamic Studies and Arabic language, but the Singapore government encouraged them to improve secular studies so that children could have more options. If children at Secondary level couldn’t keep up with the Arabic language, at least they could go on to study other subjects and benefit the country.

The good thing about the Islamic schools here are that children are taught Arabic from the time they enter primary school at age 7. By the time they are in year 6, all Islamic studies are in Arabic. From here the children progress through various texts, can go to Islamic college, then go on to places like Al-Azhar (maybe Sister Fathima has met some Singaporeans there?) While we never were able to find good texts to teach Arabic in any country, we found them as soon as we went to the Islamic school here! MUIS (Majlis Ugama Islamia Singapora) has developed their own sets of Islamic studies books and Arabic language books that are very beneficial to people who are learning Arabic as a foreign language.

So, in a way, children are given the background knowledge to help them progress and become knowledgeable about Islam and eventually give back to the muslim community here. They can go on to become active in their local mosques, work for the Islamic Society of Singapore, etc. But, if they choose not to further their Islamic studies to university level they still have a strong background in secular subjects.

Interestingly, I was complaining to my husband about school and the fact that we pay the school, but I still am the one teaching them at home. But, this is part of the job in the end. If we want children to learn, then we must help them at home and not make them feel that education ends at the doorstep. We teach them, but they end up teaching us so much more in the process.

Fatima Barkatulla

Singapore...that's an interesting option Ma Sha Allah. In Azhar there are people from every nation you can think of...and some you'll never have heard of (I'd never heard of the Comoros Islands for example but apparently they constitute a Muslim country!). I personally didn't meet any Singaporeans but met many Malaysians, Phillipinos and Thai students.

This is just an observation and not to say that all students must be like this, but: many of them though who had an Islamic education in their countries prior to coming to Al-Azhar, did not seem to have skills of critical analysis. They were very good at memorising and recalling information and I felt that that is what had been emphasised in their education.

Their Qur'an recitation and Arabic handwriting was absolutely beautiful...showing years of practise. I think that if possible, having native Arabs teach Arabic in an Arab environment would be the best option. Because at a young age, children can speak like natives if exposed to native speakers of a language and often in Eastern countries where Arabic is taught, it is taught with the accent of that particular nation. Like people who learn Arabic in Deoband University in India, learn it with an Indian accent and the same goes for far-Eastern countries. But at least Arabic is in the curriculum. Ma sha Allah.

Al-Azhar had some brilliant material that was being taught...but you know when the Brits came to Egypt and through what came afterwards, the original system in Al-Azhar was dismantled and so now, though the books and material can often be very good...I found it hard to find a good teacher in Al-Azhar. I used to find good Al-Azhar teachers and be privately tutored by them, because the ones in the classroom, were just looking at their watches waiting for school to be over, their heart wasn't in teaching...which was so sad. It was a frustrating system.

Since coming back to the UK I have continued my studies by distance learning through the American Open University who also have an Al-Azhar accredited Batchelors degree in Islamic studies in the Arabic medium. I then have phone contact with a scholar who I can ask questions of. I also link up with local scholars and ask them questions...I get lectures on cassette and video and study through that way. I find the course material accurate and thorough, though there is nothing like attending a good University in person...I am in effect doing what I was doing when in Al-Azhar...taking the books and studying them myself with the help of private tutors.

ARGcomment:..and you have the option of just asking you dad :) nice!

M. S. M. Saifullah

Gosh! Can you believe it? Even my wife has pitched in with her views :-) Coming to the serious stuff…. I and my wife (primarily my wife!) have been homeschooling our kids until a month ago when they joined Madrasah al-Irsyad al-Islamiyyah in Singapore. As Fatima B. had noticed correctly that the kids who are homeschooled progress through their work pretty fast. This is not surprising as this is perhaps the best benefit of one-to-one tuition. Apart from this, the sheltered existence in the house away from the vices is also helpful especially in the modern day world where morality changes as fast as the magazines in the neighbourhood tobacco shop. But this is where the drawbacks of homeschooling also come in. The learning in a sheltered existence also gives rise to what I call as the frog-in-a-well syndrome. The parents and especially kids come to think that the four walls with in their house is the world; the world of learning, playing, competing, etc. This is akin to a frog living in a well who thinks that the world is the well. Homeschooled kids may be fast learners but how well do they their stuff when compared with the outside world?

My own personal experience has at least shown that I under-performed when I had a sheltered existence. But once when I was out of my parents’ house, living in hostels, my performance improved drastically. I had the freedom to think and to plan my own studies without anyone overlooking my shoulder. It also made me realize the level of my own knowledge vis-à-vis that of the students in my class.

Coming to what Shabbir has said… I think the Western education system is a problem in itself, especially when education is looked as a way to make money and to give consumers’ the value of their money. Over-commercialization of education has been the biggest disaster in the Western world. Apart from this, the British education system does not appear to impart any ambition in kids. If you ask kids “what would you like to be when you grow up?” The reply most often which one gets is a shrug.

Shabbir says: “I keep thinking for example why companies that can afford 5 Indian qualified people with Masters or Phd’s still will employ 1 UK or US Bachelor qualified person?” I think this kind of argument is an outcome of living in Dubai and judging people on the basis of their level of employment. Have we not heard that in the Gulf people from Indian sub-continent are treated not at the same level as the ones from Western world and that this is also reflected in what they earn? Since there is an inequality in judging the people on the basis of where they come from rather than their educational background, experience and achievements, we can be assured that any argument which rests on it is worthless. One has to compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges. When I was working at University of Cambridge, there was (and still is) a great demand for students from India and China whether for pursing Ph.D or post-doctoral research. The reasons are quite simple. Indians and Chinese have good academic background and hard-working. There are cases of British faculty members not liking British students simply because they do not have the drive! If you will survey the US universities, you will find that both Indians and Chinese are ubiquitous as faculty members. These are the people who came to the US to study and stayed there. Now this says something about the education system back home, i.e., in India and in China.

The education system in India is quite interesting, even though it has its own flaws. In small towns and villages, the education is imparted under trees or house with only a roof with a blackboard. In big towns and cities, the situation is not like this. This is certainly a big inequality. The villages do not have well-equipped labs unlike the schools in the cities. So, the students who go there only have “bookish” knowledge and they learn their “experiments” in a more abstract way. The entrance exam for professional courses, however, is a great equalizer. In these exams what matters is how you perform and not your background. You can be from a super-rich family attending a posh-school, but if you can’t do the exam well, oh well! hard luck! When I joined for my Bachelor degree course in Engineering, we had a guy who came with a ragged suitcase with just two pairs of clothes; he washed one and wore one to the institute. He belonged to a poor family and studied under trees and street-lights before getting admission in engineering after a successful entrance exam. And guess what? This guy topped in electrical engineering. A similar story is of a religious paternal uncle of mine who lived on just one pair of clothes and walked miles to go to school. He went on to become the Deputy Director of Indo-Swiss Project at a Dairy Farm and he retired not too long ago. Now can you replicate that in the UK where just getting a university education would set you back by £25,000? True, Indians may have “bookish” and “abstract” knowledge but the advantage of this that they can be good in the stuff which requires such knowledge: computer science and theoretical physics. This is certainly not a cup of tea for “just better trained sheep” and, in fact, many of us. Theoretical physics simply gives me shudders!

Giving the discussion a religious slant, yes, people in India work hard just to get good jobs. But who does not want a good job? The other alternative is to live in the world of poverty where manipulation is much easier. It is easier to manipulate someone who is poor, hungry and needy. We always complain about how the Christian missionaries manipulate in poorer parts of Africa by food and medicine! Our rizq has been written even before we were born, but that does not mean that we know what and where our rizq is. We have to look for it just as the birds go out in the morning to look for theirs.

Shabbir says: “Every day we see and here about people who dropped out of school and are millionaires, billionaires, etc so why do we want to run after these academic grades?” This is a flawed argument. These millionaires or billionaires are not our role models. What is true for them is not true for us. They have something to back them up in case they drop out. What about us? Furthermore, the reality of this world is such that for every job we seek we have to show the evidence of our learning, qualification and our abilities. In fact, this reality has not changed much from the time of Ibn Sirin (d. 110 AH) who said: "They would not ask about the isnad: But when the fitnah happened, they said: Name to us your men. So the narrations of the ahl al-sunnah would be accepted, while those of the ahl al-bid'ah would not be accepted." Our academic grades and certificates show where we received our knowledge from and they should be traceable back to the original source, i.e, the school or the university. The ijaza system in Islamic learning is very similar to the degree and certificate system of modern world. Moreover, the Islamic way of learning in the past was to go beyond the frog-in-a-well syndrome of homeschooling; to travel in the search knowledge, studying under different shuyookh, be independent and develop critical thinking (like Imams Sha’afi, al-Bukhari and Muslim!).

Shabber Adam

The basic point I am actually trying to make is that we don’t have the barakah in our time. Yes, we need all types of people to work in a nation, but I don’t think anyone actually believes it should be on the basis of secular education for 8 to 9 hours or even working for 8 or 9 hours per day – The rat race, sometimes it is difficult to think outside of the norm, to think away from the factory life. If we turn to Allah(swt) and sacrifice ourselves for Allah(swt), then He will make our worldly affairs easier and they will fall into place. What message are we sending our children when we have them doing 7 hours at school then a another 2 hours of secular subjects, either home work or extra tutor and 1 hour of Quran after asr? Hmm… 9 hours of education to earn the rizk that has already prescribed for you and 1 hour in the day to prepare you for akhira.

Barakah in your time, You have to really experience this, for example you are running to a meeting, a important meeting, business deal, or presentation at work and if you do it well, more $$$’s for you, but its time for salat, the jamat is praying at the mosque, and if you go and pray you will def be late for the meeting.

What do you do? Your mind starts whirling, the clogs of reason start to engage:

• Well, if the meeting finishes on time I could pray by myself afterwards
o But what if it doesn’t I wont be able to leave the meeting to pray.
• I can pray now, the meeting might start late
• Well I know I am not a traveller but I could join my salat because this is a difficult situation for me
• You know if I get this deal, inshallah I will be the best Muslim in the world, I will learn Arabic, pray at night, Oh Allah please let this deal be successful
• Shaitan then joins in, you know if you don’t get there on time they will cancel the meeting they are very strict, you need this deal, you can use the money to make your life easier, put the kids in a private Islamic school, buy a house, spend more time in the dawa

Scenario 1:

And then click, you remember, your rizk is from Allah(swt) if it is written for you to get this deal and $$$ then inshallah you will because it is from Allah(swt) so the decision maker you have to impress is your Creator, you go and pray, you send a sms to tell them you will be 10 minutes late, you turn up at the meeting 15 minutes, late, the others have also been delayed and the meeting starts 30 mins late, within 30 mins they are impressed by you everything falls into place the deal is done, you go home early.

Scenario 2:

You decide to go to the meeting and pray when it finishes, you get their the meeting has not started you think of praying there, but the organiser tell you we will start now, and you cant see anywhere private to pray, so you wait, and guilt sets in, the meeting starts, you block out the guilt of not praying, the people are not too impressed and you need more time to convince them, the meeting runs on is late, then it finishes without a decision, you leave and you have missed the time for prayer, you lost on both fronts, akhira and dunya, you think to yourself why me?

Scenario 3:

And then click, you remember, your rizk is from Allah(swt) if it is written for you to get this deal and $$$ then inshallah you will because it is from Allah(swt) so the decision maker you have to impress is your Creator, you go and pray, you send a sms to tell them you will be 10 minutes late, you turn up at the meeting 15 minutes late, they are waiting for you and you explain and apologise to them for being late, you conduct the presentation, they seem happy but they don’t want to decide yet, you leave happy and content, and put your trust in Allah(swt) you prayed, and you made duwah, you know there is always good in what Allah(swt) decides for you, even though you may not perceive it.

To our education example, you have your children focus on learning, Quran, Arabic, Good manners, most of the day is spent on these subjects, your kid then does 2 hours of maths and English, all of a sudden the concepts in maths, they are understanding without extra work, the essay they have to write takes them 45 minutes, things fall into place because the priority of your sacrifice is for the pleasure of Allah(swt) and not for the pleasure of this dunya.

By the way I am not saying the idea of a school is wrong, i am basically saying the current schooling system in the west and east does not cater for Muslims, the schooling systems that are run on a governmental basis, of course there are private schools that are exception to this where people have tried to give the right Islamic teaching with the right secular subjects and character development. Lets reverse the study hours and see what happens, if the children do 7 hours of Quran, Arabic, Hadeeth, Tafseer, analysing, understanding, and give them 2 hours of English, Maths, Science, and remember after the foundations Maths and Science will be given more time as they will be taught with Islamic studies, because they reinforce the Quran and Islam.

Fatima Barkatulla (Umm Yusuf)

I think really we can use a mixture of different schooling methods...I had my son at home with me for the first 5 years during which time I developed a strong relationship with him, emotional and intellectual...he doesn't just think of me as the cook in the house, or the one to go to if he's hurt, but the one to discover with, explore with, travel with and learn with. That means that now that he has gone to a Muslim school...he still looks to me as his teacher.

That bond is very important...as it will last. My siblings and I have always been very spiritual even though we went through non-Muslim schools mostly....I think it was because my parents were so close to us. They weren't over-protective but they instilled a real love for Islam in us and a consciousness that Allah was our Best Friend and was watching us.

Also, we used to read a lot about Islam, when we went abroad, we went on Umrah mainly and we loved it and felt so proud of Saudi Arabia. I mean, we went up Mount Noor and to different sites in Makkah and Madinah and it brought to life all that we had read about the Prophet (sallallahu alaihi was sallam). At night, my dad would tell us the stories from the Qur'an and in the day we would explore the sites. I would really recommend all parents take their kids to Saudi for a spiritual journey...

I agree with Saifullah that we are supposed to 'seek knowledge' and so I think we should use many different means to seek knowledge, travelling, at home, in schools, with tutors....whoever has the knowledge.

Again, a child's relationship with their parents is of paramount importance.

Fatima Barkatulla (Umm Yusuf)

We have to remember that most of the 'posh schools' in India are Convent schools aren't they...set up by Christian missionaries or schools set up following the British system.

In the town where my parents come from...people are in a frenzy to send their kids to Convent schools for the status, prestige and superior education they feel it will bring them. My father is trying to revive their love of studying Islam in the Islamic schools and Universities there, so he sponsors kids from his town who are willing to study deen or Hifdh. My father-in-law, from Aligarh University says the Convent schools are conditioning the students to love all that is Western...

I heard one speaker say something quite interesting. He said that when the coloniolists left their colonies...like India etc. they didn't just up and leave without putting certain things into place....the most important thing they put in place was a school system that would churn out 'their type of people' in every generation, to become the leaders of those countries and play ball with the West.

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